The amount of 'supporters' queuing up on social media to criticise, moan and say 'I told you so' is both laughable and disappointing.
Derbyshire didn't 'let' Sussex score the runs to win the game today. They earned them, made them. As I said last night, a couple of players had to go big, and they did. Yet not for one minute do I think the wrong decision was made in not enforcing the follow on last night.
Mickey Arthur knows his players, they will have said if they were tired or not, the decision was made on that basis. I didn't see the action but, like I say, it is easy to say we didn't bowl well - they still need to make them. But it made for a more exciting game than watching them bat out time today. That's what Mickey promised us and that's what we got. I will risk being in a minority of one to say I will chance losing to have a chance of winning every time - and applaud a Head of Cricket who does so.
We know this is a work in progress. We know it is far from the finished article. We know that player X is good at this and less good at that. But those who purport to be supporters need to remember where we have come from in a short space of time. For every brilliant last over win there will be a disappointing defeat, adding to the learning process. But we are ahead of the game on this over the season.
At the end of it all, we lost. But we tried to win.
For me, that's worth it tonight.
i am so disappointed , call me a bluff old traditionalist , but i have never liked this relatively new idea of not enforcing the follow on ,reminds me of the Richard Nixon quote , if u got them by the balls etc. i am sorry i think we threw it away! , mal barlow
ReplyDeleteBut there's having them by the balls and being realistic, Mal.
DeleteConners, Dal and Kerr bowled six overs each today, suggesting to me they wouldn't have bowled many had we made them follow on. Fitness issue, or keeping them fresh for Sunday? I don't know, but a bigger squad would help.
We regroup, we go again
That's kind of an arguement in favour of the follow on though, isn't it? If they weren't planning on bowling much seam, tiredness doesn't really come into it...
DeleteI think we gave up the hold we had on Sussex by not enforcing the follow on and with 1 session of poor cricket gave Sussex fresh hope .The second declaration of 4.5 an over at Hove with short boundaries coupled with a very inexperienced County Championship attack was generous . Anyway we have to regroup ,learn from it and ensure we win on Sunday to secure a Q/F
Deletefair enough Peakfan , i am sorry , i get disappointed when we lose! i have been a fan even longer than u ! tho still in my 60 s saw The great Les Jackson play in his final season!lol , may be you are right!
DeleteAs Mickey said after the game, a couple are carrying niggles. You bowl again, risk real problems and are down two players for Sunday, maybe longer. The hope was the last day might turn, it didn't, and they batted very well
DeleteAgree to a certain extent, particularly with the sentiments it's worth dangling a carrot and risking a loss in order to give us exciting cricket and chances of wins.
ReplyDeleteYes it's disappointing to lose, but lets keep things in perspective. It's been a massive improvement so far this season and one defeat, whilst very frustrating, isn't the end of the world.
A word on Billy Godleman. He's been great for us and I like him, but has time come for him to take a break, and give the captaincy to someone else? Not only is he out of form with the bat, I'm also becoming concerned about his captaincy (for example, Watt bowling god knows how many overs on the trot today, despite the game slipping away and not really looking like taking a wicket.) It's a shame Masood is heading off to play test cricket, as he'd have been an ideal replacement.
Injuries, James. Suspect the ones with niggles are Kerr and Conners, both T20 regulars. Or maybe Dal, lined up to play on, Sunday perhaps. That brings the numbers down and they can't overbowl Reece
DeleteI agree, Peakfan. Frustrating, yes. You don't expect to lose a game where you score 550 on first innings, especially when it's over 4 days but we batted badly last night and struggled with the ball today. And credit to Orr, Brooks et al who did the business for Sussex.
ReplyDeleteMickey will have learned a lot about his team from this game. I'd like to see McKiernan given a run in red-ball, and Aitchison will hopefully play at Durham. For now, forget this one and let's concentrate on beating Durham on Sunday and getting to the Blast quarters. I think we would have settled for that and mid-table in the Championship at this stage at the start of April.
Yes Phil, I think Ben will play at Durham and will be welcomed back. And like you, I would have snatched your hand off for this position pre-season!
DeleteThe decision not to enforce follow on (rightly or wrongly) cost the draw points, that’s all. No one died, contrary to some of the SM postings. Had Sussex batted third, a turgid day would probably have ensued and resulted in a draw being called at about 284-6 with the non-bowlers bowling just as soon as the handshake was in play.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree, the comments of a wise man!
DeleteHaving posted such a huge score in the first innings, we should never have let this game slip away. I still maintain that we should have enforced the follow on. We had Sussex on the ropes, having taken three wickets in five balls. The momentum was with us. And there was virtually no way we could have lost with a lead of 214. So we emerge with just seven points when a draw would have given us fifteen.
ReplyDeleteHaving said all that, Mickey Arthur and Billy must have had their reasons for batting on. Had we posted more runs in the second innings, who knows, we might have ended up winners.
Nevertheless, as disappointed as I am, I'm not disheartened. We are having a terrific season compared to last year, and, as Mickey says, we are an emerging team, so there will be bumps in the road. It's to be expected.
Finally, I must give credit to Sussex who looked out of the game at the end of their first innings. I thought they paced the run chase perfectly, pushing singles here and there and finding the boundary at regular intervals. Orr was magnificent, and Riswan used his experience to guide them home. Never once did they look in real trouble. Their supporters witnessed not only a great victory but also their first win in 20 CC games. There'll be some celebrating in the pubs of Hove tonight.
When you are essentially two bowlers light, it is a problem. We carry a small squad and unlike Lancs, who simply bring in another good player of county experience, we are patching up what we have.
DeleteAnd yes, some supporters always say we were rubbish, rarely give credit to the opposition for playing well.
We had four seamers, two spinners plus Madsen who could have bowled so there was plenty of scope to rotate and bowl the quicks in short spells.
ReplyDeleteWith a 241 run lead on first innings, enforcing the follow on would have given Sussex no chance of winning the game and guaranteed at least eight points for the draw. We gave the opposition a chance and paid the price for it.
I, like the majority it would appear, felt it was totally the wrong decision and can understand supporters' frustration with the outcome.
However, this Derbyshire squad are heading in the right direction and no professional sportsperson is ever happy with defeat. Comment and criticism always needs to be tempered so I hope any social media comments which overstep the mark are given short thrift. Onwards and upwards.
Dave
But we didn't, Dave. As Mickey said after, two bowlers (I guess from Kerr/Conners /Dal) have niggles and couldn't bowl much.
DeleteThere's a bigger picture which many of the quick to comment brigade on Twitter, always faceless, fail to grasp.
I don't want to enter into the debate about the rights and wrongs about not enforcing the follow on, but what I have to say is that in all my years of supporting Derbyshire (even longer than you PF!) I cannot recall our squandering such a strong position to our opponents. After our unaccountably poor batting yesterday, it seems that our bowling today was even worse. The inadequacy of our bowling attack was cruelly exposed by Sussex who cruised to victory with some ease. Congratulations to Sussex but we really shouldn't gave made things so easy for them.
ReplyDeleteSome folk need to get a grip. Nothing in this journey under a new coaching team will be linear. There will bad bad days, but passive aggressive nonsense from folk who don't know half the story or 1% of what MA knows is less than useful.
ReplyDeleteWe go again.
Andy
Agreed, Andy! Mickey makes a decision with all the facts. It won't always work out right, because life doesn't work like that. For anyone
DeleteGenuine question. What's your thoughts on Billy? two single figure scores Again. how much longer can we cover for him do you think? Facet
ReplyDeleteI think Bill is struggling. That is clear. I think the new contract was premature based on that.
DeleteBut someone who knows him, works with him and values him rates the bloke. He must expect him to come through this and it is hard for the guy at present. Harder still when people on Twitter get personal, which is not acceptable
Agree with that Steve. Whilst something is clearly not quite right with his game at the moment - personal abuse way over steps the line and is bang out of order. It also helps nobody and shows a very short memory.
DeleteTotally agree with you Steve. I've played cricket at club level, and yes the coach would have checked and conferred with the players.
ReplyDeleteWould much rather have this than boring dross. They would have batted out time in their second innings, leaving a ridiculous total with no chance of a win. This way, we had that chance.
In fairness the way we've been playing I would have put us firm favourites this morning, but ask New Zealand about being favs!
Yeah, we came out the wrong side here. But who kept checking the score all afternoon? It was a great game of cricket, far better than a bore draw such as Notts had
DeleteSorry, Dave, Wirral again. Keep forgetting!
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately it's the nature of a few so called supporters. There is nothing they like better than the critical comment, after what has been a great start to the season. Work very much still in progress early days. MA learning much about the players. He will do for me and very lucky to have him.
ReplyDeleteI agree Cuthbert. There are those on other sites in social media who always seem far happier when they can moan about a defeat, rather than praise a win..
DeleteEnjoy the good times, be constructive and understanding in the bad..
Regarding the follow on debate it was "dammed if they do dammed if they don't" Derbyshire have had their fingers burnt plenty of times over the years making teams follow on, would Derbyshire have chased 342 in two sessions? I think highly unlikely,Sam Connors needs a rest Billy needs to move to the seconds to try and find some form
ReplyDeleteThe decision not to enforce the follow on was absolute folly and if we had done so we would not have lost the match and would have taken at least 14 points from the game.
ReplyDeleteI disagree John. It was a decision explained after the game, with tired bowlers, two carrying niggles. Mickey has a small squad he has to nurse through the season. People would be quick to moan if Kerr and Dal, for examples, were ruled out for 4 weeks in aggravating a problem.
DeleteIt seems to be the nature of the world unfortunately. A lot of people happy to criticize behind a computer keyboard who wouldn't dream of doing it face to face. We are where we are, improved on last season but still a lot of work to do. Please keep some perspective folks. I sometimes think we have Notts supporters on here in disguise.
ReplyDeleteI don't think this site bad, Old Amateur as I wouldn't allow it. But personal attacks on Twitter and other forums are unacceptable. And always the same ones, who never show their faces or use their real names. I will be critical when it is deserved, and am always happy to engage face to face.
DeleteBut people need to remember, players have families too, and it is neither nice nor clever to be rude. I blocked ten on Twitter yesterday, who I have simply no desire to engage with at any time.
There's clearly arguments for and against enforcing the follow on. What is clear is that after deciding not to, we proceeded to bat poorly.
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is that it's rather refreshing to be speculating whether or not we should have enforced the follow on, instead of before the game wondering if we're going to lose on day 3 or 4, or during the game wondering how many we need to score to avoid the follow on!
Disappointing to lose a game we largely dominated, but we move on and hopefully qualify for the T20 knockout stages.
Agreed, Jasper!
DeleteLeaving aside the follow on issue, what the result does show is a lack of bowling penetration. Perhaps also a misreading of the pitch.
ReplyDeleteJust think we are low on bowlers. Aitchison and Potts are coming back from injuries, Cohen is out, they have to nurse Scrimshaw, Conners must be tired as he has played every game, Dal has had a niggle, Kerr is important for T20.
DeleteWe need more bowlers over the winter, as MA has admitted. More experienced ones.
I do think that as a Derbyshire member and supporter for several decades, I have a right to make comments about our team, be they complimentary or critical. I'm sure others feel the same. Obviously personal attacks and unfair criticisms should be avoided but we cannot help being severely disappointed at what amounted to capitulation in this match. This was in stark contrast to our wonderful and unexpected win over Middlesex in the Championship a fortnight ago. But as Derbyshire supporters I guess we have endured the peaks an troughs and will continue to do so.
ReplyDeleteOf course you do, Chapel Guy and I know the club regard this site as a useful barometer of supporter opinion. Constructive comment and criticism is fine and I both enjoy and value comments, whether or not they agree with me!
DeleteWhether we were right or wrong to enforce a "follow on" let's act the way John Isner did last night (though he won, I know).
ReplyDeleteBe gracious, compliment your opponent, and move on looking forward, not back.
Something that’s crossed my mind today. If we are so concerned about bowlers workloads - what is the sense in playing them all against India? Especially with the vital Durham game following on so closely afterwards…
ReplyDeleteUnless it’s contractual?
Any bowler with an injury will not play against India. The squad named is partly for commercial reasons.
DeleteDave B
Thanks Dave B
DeleteCriminal to lose a game that you score 550 in in the first innings. Billy needs a rest now from the championship team, give Harry Came a go, he can't be any worse
ReplyDelete