It marks the signing of a quality, senior professional, a man with captaincy experience if required and able to bat at the top of the order, which I think will be his niche, or in the middle order if needed.
What it particularly offers is balance to whoever the captain is next season. The thinking money still appears to be on Leus du Plooy leaving, so Lloyd would appear the most likely successor, unless we are bringing in an overseas player or another English player with that enticement.
An experienced opening bat will be a great help to Harry Came, as he looks to build further on some good innings at the end of last year, as well as some positive displays this year.
Assuming that both are still on the staff, Anuj Dal and Luis Reece could bat six and seven, meaning there are three genuine bowlers in the top seven, Lloyd's medium pace more than useful.
That allows for plenty of flexibility in the bottom four in the order. We could opt for an extra batsman, or we could play two spinners and two seamers, or one and three.
I would certainly love to see an overseas player who can handle a bat and bowl some quality spin, or bring in a spinner of quality to inject mystery to the attack. It may be that the overseas roles are split between four day and T20 players, but my ideal would be the return of Khan for T20, plus a hard hitting spinning all rounder and a good seamer for four day cricket.
Those key roles will depend on who else Mickey Arthur can attract from this country, but this could be a notional 'nucleus' side to start 2024:
Lloyd
Came
Guest
Madsen
Lamb
Dal
Reece
X
Chappell
X
Conners
I haven't included Pat Brown, as we don't know the story there, nor Ben Aitchison, who I understand is likely to miss the rest of the summer with a back injury. It is a major blow for club and player, especially as we are running low on seam bowlers. Nor does it include overseas players.
The weeks ahead will be fascinating and it will be interesting to watch players who might become available in the Royal London Cup.
I expect changes and surprises at Derbyshire, some bigger than others. But 2024 is a big season for Derbyshire, for Mickey Arthur and for his reputation.
I don't understand the enthusisam about the Lloyd signing--which strikes me as a truly dreadful one. He has a f-c average of 30, with six centuries in over a hundred matches--and that comes down by two whole runs if you take away his 313, which is quite a feat for someone who's played almost 200 innings. His average last season, apart from the 313, was well under 30. His average this season is 23 and he's yet to get a 50. His white-ball record is pretty mediocre, and he's never scored a white-ball century. His bowling is part-time: that is, not good enough to fill in as a fourth seamer.
ReplyDeleteSo he's really not--or at least he shouldn't be!--a replacement for Godleman or an opener. I've wondered for ages why Glamorgan don't move him down the order and get a better opener. He's essentially a poor man's Will Rhodes--and he looks to me to be a replacement in the one spot that Derbyshire definitely don't need anyone, that of batting medium-pace-bowling all-rounder (is two in the starting XI not enough?!) The signing only makes sense as a replacement captain--but his captaincy ecperience isn't wildly extensive or successful.
Rhodes himself would have been a much better target--but surely, even given the county's lack of money, an approach to Nick Browne, Rishi Patel or (especially) Ryan Patel, who's basically been told he's not a first team prospect, would have been better.
Talking of signings, I would also get rid of Thomson, who I don't think is good enough for the ambitions MA says he has, and replace him. Virdi might be a good shout, or if they want someone all-format, trying to get back Qadri (who's effectively being displaced by Matt Parkinson). Or Bess, although I'm not a huge fan.
Dave
It's not always that easy, Dave.
DeleteSome might want to stay south, or not come to us. Rishi will have plenty offers, Ryan averages less than Lloyd. I would love to know Browne's average outside of scoring for fun against us every time...
Rhodes is contracted to the end of next year. Qadri's average is similar to Thomson and I don't think he would come back. Virdi might be an option, but I wouldn't see Bess as an improvement, based on what I saw at Chesterfield.
Might not be exciting, but we can't attract Sam Hain or Dawid Malan, nor afford them.Think we need to see how this fits with retentions and other signings to perhaps fully appreciate it, but like I said a solid, if not spectacular signing
Lloyd said he wanted to be nearer to family in North Wales, which Derby is than Cardiff. That's what we are looking for, being the county of convenience, as well as choice.
DeleteI wonder if Sam Hain has a granny in Grassmoor...? 😉
I have to admit to being rather underwhelmed upon hearing this news. He's certainly someone who has gone under my radar somewhat.
DeleteHowever, I am sure MA knows a decent player and potential captain when he sees one. Hopefully a solid piece in the jigsaw...
Yes, of course not all the players a club wants will actually be realistic targets, Peakfan. But a couple of points in reply to yours:
DeleteThe big difference for me between the Patels and Lloyd and also Qadri and Thomson is that the former in both cases are several years younger. They have scope to develop, whereas I would be surprised if Thomson or Lloyd get much better. (Btw, I'm not sure I would describe Qadri's average as similar to Thomson's--it's seven runs lower, and his strike rate 16 balls per wicket better. That strikes me as a large difference).
Nick Browne's overall average is around 37--but I agree that in recent seasons it's been unduly swayed by a small handful of big scores. He may also be past his best.
But what signings like Lloyd's really make me wonder is how much ambition a county has. He's an OK county player playing in an OK team--but he's not a really good player. That's why I referred to MA's ambitions. To my mind it's the kind of signing you make if you're happy with mediocrity, to be paddling around the middle of Division 2 and never or almost never getting to the Blast quarters.
I understand your argument that the county may not be in a position to get your Hainses and Malans--but in that case, given that Lloyd won't be remotely cheap, wouldn't it be better to try to develop someone like Wagstaff (that is, a homegrown young player)? Even without taking young homegrown players into coinsideration, if the second overseas next year is a batter again, then Lloyd being in the team keeps out Lamb even if du Plooy leaves--in which case, why sign HIM? Why not keep opening with Reece, bat Lamb at 6 and see if, when opportunities arise, Wagstaff (or another academy player) might be the eventual replacement for Madsen?
Dave
Cheers Dave. Yeah, I was looking at averages as a whole and Thommo has a considerably better List A and T20 average than Hami. Truth be told, the parting wasn't so sweet and a reunion is not especially likely .
DeleteI think we need to see the full recruitment process. My gut feeling is that Mickey wants improvement, dare I say it success next year. That is too soon for Wagstaff but I take your point, he needs opportunity and I hope he gets it in the Royal London.
Supporters must trust in the head of cricket and his judgement of the ability of players. He will stand or fall on what they do or don't do. We have different opinions and that's fine and what it is all about!
Thank you for your well made comments, always appreciated!
A solid core there, I think it'd be good for Dal to get some more responsibility and bat higher than 7.
ReplyDeleteAs an aside, noticed today on the Warwickshire twitter account that Ethan Brookes (Henry's brother) had returned to them from his short loan at Derbyshire where he'd played some second 11 cricket. Hadn't previously been aware of this, any insight why the club would take someone on loan to play second 11? The tweet mentioned two other players with similar loans, all are in their early twenties and haven't played much first team cricket, potentially out of contract and other teams getting a look at them?
Yes, Brookes played in the 2s against Yorkshire. Not sure if he is good enough to push for a senior start as I haven't seen him, but he hits a long ball and is a handy bowler.
DeleteBetter judges than me will have got an idea of his potential and whether he might develop into something special, but he hasn't a lot of senior experience
Interesting. I was chatting to some Warwickshire supporters at the 'Blast off' and they mentioned Henry's brother, reckoned he was useful and 'one to watch'.
DeleteYes, don't deny he has talent, but if we retained what we expect, could he push in to Came, Lloyd, Guest, Madsen, Lamb, Dal, Reece? Maybe he could but I wouldn't expect it.
DeleteMickey, no doubt, has a plan with his recruitment. He's basically rebuilding the team and laying the foundations for a new era. Chappell, Lamb and Lloyd look like key players for this new look Derbyshire.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, Lloyd's CC averages are almost identical to Reece. Lloyd has scored 4,854 runs in 175 innings at an average of 30, while Reece has scored 4,848 runs in 167 innings at an average of 31. Lloyd has scored six centuries and 21 50s. Reece has scored eight centuries and 28 50s.
While Lloyd's stats are not outstanding for a player of his age, a change of scenery and coaching staff might see him really prosper. This sometimes happens when players change clubs.
Regarding Reece, his form has dipped. However, if he can reproduce something approaching the the form of 2019, when in the CC he scored nearly 1,000 runs and took over 50 wickets, in the remaining games, then he'll probably get offered a contract. On his day, he's a fine batsman and an excellent bowler.
For me he’s just a solid pro with plenty of experience. If he can average mid 30s and take a few wickets so be it . Difficult to judge this one in isolation , if Du Plooy stays it strengthens us , time will tell !
ReplyDeleteI agree, Paul. Realistically we shop differently to Notts, who have announced Tongue and Pennington today. Not everyone, with respect, can shop at Harrods or Waitrose...
DeleteI will be honest. When I checked out his stats (appreciate he bowls a bit) it didn't overly excite me. Worse FC record than Billy Godleman hasn't he?
ReplyDeleteYes he has, but not over the last three years, which is important. And he is coming to his peak, or should be...
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