On the other hand, we have lost Critchley, Reece and du Plooy to the new competition, as well as Madsen to injury. There may be a question mark over the involvement of Billy Godleman and we don't know how soon Alex Hughes will be back. Might our greater need not have been for a batsman?
He is apparently available for the last three T20 matches too, which some supporters will see as too little, too late. He may not have been available earlier of course.
I have two reservations. One is that we don't know if we are getting prime time Ravi of his last spell here, or unfit Ravi who turned up from Surrey. He hasn't played since February, so that is hard to call.
Two is that if he plays in the 'dead rubbers' of the T20 for match fitness, we will also presumably play Van Beek, as the other overseas, Scrimshaw as our best T20 bowler so far and Dernbach, because he is in on loan and was star turn last time out.
Which leaves a very, very long tail and also excludes a raft of young bowlers who might benefit, long-term, from a game or two in a competition where it no longer mattered.
While welcoming back a very fine bowler, it strikes me as similar to when we signed Venkat in 1973. Again, a bowler of world renown, but we had two talented young off spinners on the staff in Geoff Miller and Bob Swindell, as well as Fred Swarbrook. We had a batting line up that couldn't buy a run, yet signed a fourth spinner. Yes, he took wickets and was a lovely bloke, but we rarely made enough runs for him to work with.
Deja vu all over again...
These were exactly my thoughts, Steve, when I heard about Ravi. Maybe DH is also trying to sign a batsman or two. That department certainly needs urgent recruitment, especially with us losing players to the 100.
ReplyDeleteVery well put, Peakfan. I am a great fan of Ravi but the need for a batter is far greater. What worrie me is that this has been blindingly obvious since April yet nothing is done. Not going to mince my words - this season has been a shambles and the winds of change should have been blowing a gale through the management set up weeks ago.
ReplyDeleteWith Ravi's well publicised fitness/weight issues in the past one wonders if it will take half a dozen matches for him to get up to speed. If that's the case it could be a pointless exercise. As other posters have pointed out, we urgently need to get some batting reinforcements a bit sharpish!
ReplyDeleteI don't normally comment, just read & lurk.
ReplyDeleteBut I felt compelled to put finger to keyboard with your comment about Venkat and 1973. It's this sort of detail, commentary and fact that I read this blog for. You bring a colour to your Derbyshire views that I don't see anywhere else
And whilst my DCCC vintage is later years Barnet, Morris & Cork and so I've no idea if you're right or not, it's great to read things being put in perspective.
Keep up the great work
Thanks Carl, lovely to hear from you and feel free to get involved.
DeleteAlways enjoy healthy debate and opinion! Appreciate the kind words too!
Just to follow up the Venkat 1973 debate, and Carl's note above, can I just confirm to him that I have always believed you are right. After finishing bottom again in 1972 we lost all our batsmen, save Page, through either retirement or not being retained. In addition our fast bowlers, Ward and Hendrick were injury prone. We were well stocked with spinners as you mentioned, but we signed Venkat. Also Edwin Smith was county coach at this time, and he could bowl decent off spin. We tried to sign Dennis Lillee but he did not want to risk his troublesome back with county cricket. I always thought Venkat was a panic signing not thought through, after all Geoff Miller have just won an award in 1972 as an outstanding junior, and had toured West Indies with England Youth.
DeleteIt still rankles with me even after nearly 50 years.
I really am at a loss as to why we can't find a batsman out there, yet we can find seamers with considerable ease. Another meh signing this one, too little too late
ReplyDeleteAgree with all of the earlier comments. I've just been looking at the First 11 profiles as shown on the DCCC website. It lists 5 specialist batsmen of which the only ones available for the 50 over comp are Wood, Came and (possibly) Godleman. It then lists 8 all rounders of which 2 will be lost to the 100, 2 are currently injured and the remainder I would class as bowlers who can bat rather than the other way round. Even if we play both wicket keepers as batsmen (and I don't know that either are really top 4 material) - it leaves us very short. I wouldn't expect that a top 6 of Godleman; Wood; Came; Guest; Hosein and Hudson-Prentice would frighten many bowling attacks
ReplyDeleteAll things considered we could be triple wooden spoon winners this season. Has thi been achieved by any other county ?
ReplyDeleteA near certainty I'd imagine
DeleteMiddlesex are giving us a good run for our money on I suspect a much bigger budget
DeleteSo Derbyshire win their last two matches. Birmingham lose their last two (entirely likely on recent form), Lancashire lose both theirs (less likely but they've been struggling since they lost Livingstone), Durham win against Lancs but lose the other. We improve our ne run rate sufficiently to pass Durham and we qualify for the quarter finals. But for narrow defeats or ties in 3 games we should have won from very strong positions against Notts and Worcs, and we would already be qualified. Inexperienced? yes. Handicapped by injuries ? Yes. Useless? No.
DeleteI think you are clutching at straws there, notoveryet. I err on the side of optimism but don't fancy the odds of those results l going our way AND our winning to make it work.
DeleteI haven't called them useless and am not sure who has. But again, the impact of a player at three made for the format was important last night.
I have no issue with the players, who have broadly done OK. Just flawed decisions by the coach in team selection and what to do at the toss.
Plus getting involved in things he shouldn't (the nonsense at the end of the Nottinghamshire game a prime example)
I was replying to the wooden spoon comments not what you'd written but I'll bear in mind that you must see it as a reply to you. I'm not suggesting I think qualification is likely, just pointing out that it is possible. But it's closer than any of us expected 4 weeks ago, even before Madsen and Hughes were injured, and with more urgency after the 10 over mark from Wood, du Plooy and particularly Critchley in various games, we would have won them. I don't know about the other issues you mention and we disagree on flawed selection, but somebody must be doing something right for such a weakened team to remain competitive.
DeleteMy biggest concern is we may not be getting the Ravi of 2019
ReplyDeleteIs Jade Dernbach available for the vitality? If so signing another bowler is utility bizarre also hasn’t Du Plooy been signed up to the 16.4 circus, surly common sense would mean Derbyshire signing at least two batsmen and not another bowler
ReplyDeleteNo common sense in DCCC recruitment for some time now.
DeleteDernbach isn't available for RLODC as he's playing in the 100. Seems strange that he can't get into Surrey's T20 team but is one of the elite for the 100
DeleteI'm sounding like a broken record on this but it's one thing to wish for an outcome and another to be able to achieve it. Of course, it's blindingly obvious now (though not at the start of the season) that we need to strengthen the batting with an experienced, proven one-day player for the RLODC. A top 7 of Godleman, Wood, Came, Guest, Dal, Hosein and Hudson-Prentice isn't necassarily the weakest in the group but clearly lacks experience. So where do we find the player who can add that?
ReplyDeleteThe overseas route is the obvious one. But take out the players involved in internationals during July and August, those playing in the 100 or have withdrawn from it because of Covid concerns, and those contracted to other counties already. It leaves a very shallow pool of talent demonstrated by the fact that Glamorgan have recruited Hamish Rutherford as its overseas player. There might be a hidden gem out there waiting to be unearthed but the likelihood is that you'll end up with someone worse than what we already have.
Another option is the loan route, and it's simply fanciful beyond belief that there is an experienced, good quality one-day batter who isn't going to be needed or used by their home county once the 100 gets under way. We can forget any loans from counties in the same group, so in practice, we'd be looking for this player from one of 9 counties. Essex might be the best option as it's losing fewer players to the 100 than any other county. Varun Chopra has been out in the cold there but I don't think really fits the bill of what we're looking for.
Other, more imaginative options, might be possible. Former county pro's for example - Chris Nash or even Chesney Hughes spring to mind - or Sccottish players - Durham have just signed a couple to cover a Covid outbreak. But this shows just how limited (and unpredictable) the batting options are.
In this context, I think signing Rampaul makes good sense. We know he'll add to the quality of the team and bring more experience, and as he's signed for the CPL in late August, I imagine he's keeping himself in good condition. Of course, he's a couple of years older than when we last saw him, but perhaps the biggest risk is that he does well and gets snapped up by one of the 100 teams when someone else drops out.
Of course the signing of Ravi makes sense. It would have done, rather than engaging Stanlake.
DeleteBut the greater need is a finisher, boundary-clearer at the death.
Maybe, just maybe, Critchley and Guest could become that. I think Critch will grow into captaincy and I would give it him next year. I have a lot of time for Guest, who has grown as a player in this competition and will continue to do so
I don't disagree about the need for more experience in the batting in the longer-term, just the practicalities of getting it now. My reservation about Critchley as captain was the timing and lack of preparation (and he's said as much himself, commenting on having to learn from scratch) and the impact on our most important player's performances. His bowling hasn't suffered at all - if anything he's showing even greater control and consistency. His batting worries me though. He's hit 4 boundaries in 4 innings as captain, scoring at barely 100, and isn't dominating the strike. Last night for example, he faced 6 balls in the last 3 overs, and it nearly cost us the game, as it did last week against Worcs and the week before against Notts. We need him to play his natural game and at the moment he's playing in a role that he's not particularly good at. The challenge is whether he can regain his natural aggression alongside the captaincy.
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