While his batting was less prolific than he or we would have hoped in 2017, I have a feeling that it will be a marker for him. Let's not forget that he played very little post-Christmas cricket in South Africa last year, after a shoulder operation. He then moved his life over here and joined the club a couple of weeks before the cricket started, thus having no real pre-season.
Playing county cricket on English tracks against a Dukes ball would have been an eye-opener for him and his average suffered. This, let's not forget, is a man who averages mid-thirties throughout his career and I suspect will do again. A couple of key innings in the T20 showed his capabilities, but I think that we will see a different player with the bat when the new season dawns.
What we do know, beyond doubt, are his credentials with the gloves. I'd be quite happy to apply the moniker 'world-class' to his wicket-keeping, having watched him sufficient times to pass judgement. Of course, there will be an occasional error, but he is human, like us all and makes far less than many others. With Kim Barnett bracketing him with Bob Taylor and Jack Russell in his experience, I'd suggest that we are well-served behind the timbers.
Daryn is a genial man and tales of his work with Harvey Hosein and willingness to help younger players already abound. They hail back to his days at Ramsbottom, where he had time for everyone who wanted advice and help.
Harvey could not wish for a better mentor and I suspect that they are the one/two behind the stumps. Gary Wilson will be another option, but perhaps concentrating on his batting may be of benefit to the club vice-captain.
Over the winter they will all work together and then the summer will begin with one of them being the preferred option.
I don't think Harvey would let anyone down, but nor do I think another couple of years or so working with Daryn would do him any harm either. He will end it a more complete player with bat and ball, getting cricket, I suspect, primarily in the four-day game until his ability to find the boundary regularly increases as he fills out.
We are very lucky to have two talented players for the role. As I wrote last week, the player who improves his 'weaker suit' will win the day and from a personal perspective, and as someone who wants to see a winning Derbyshire side, I merely want one of them to make the place their own.
It promises to be a battle royal and the healthy competition can only benefit the side.
Good news to start the close season.
We are in different camps PF, we both know it, but it certainly creates competition as all three wicketkeeper contracts expire, I believe, at the end of 2019.
ReplyDeleteGiven we clearly (!!) need three keepers, I look forward to Mr Barnett balancing the squad, making sure we have nine front row fast bowlers for the three places, a trio of spinners and a First XV of batsmen waiting for the call.
Must admit I find this a strange one. Of all the players to sign up for an extra year Smit would have been way down my list. Appreciate he is a great club man. I was advocating signing him but assumed he would be playing as a batsmen/part time leggie. For me the Gary Wilson signing hasn’t worked at all. Hard for him to get rhythm what with playing with Ireland so often. Hosein and the way he has ended two seasons well and marshalling the tail well means he would be my #1 keeper. However, not sure why we need 3 keepers and so rewarding someone who didn’t do that well in red Ball averaging 19.5 shocks me. White Ball different scenario I was there at headingley in RLODC and he played beautifully. Hopefully second season he comes good and can make a role his own preferably as a batsmen slip fielder and occasional leggie as clearly we are going after an Overseas seamer who can bat listening to comments from Billy and Kim. So we won’t have Mendis or Tahir early in season so spin options might not be needed until t20 and late championship in which case Critchley, Qadri, Madsen and Smith is gonna be enough if we prepare typical derby pitches. Lots of things to discuss at the moment. Recommend members listen to bbc radio derby interviews with Kim and the one with Billy, Reece & commentator Fletch.
ReplyDeleteI disagree Mark, but you probably knew that! If everyone in the side was as good at their specialist discipline as Smit at his we would have a helluva side.
DeleteAs I wrote, I see Daryn and Harvey as the keepers and Gary as a middle order bat who can keep if required.
Why was he 'rewarded'? Because Kim Barnett has seen past the average to the character and the keeper.
In the latter he is something special. And I'd suggest that a mid-30s average in top level cricket is more representative of his talent than last year's 'blip'.
Watch this space...
Also interesting to hear we targeted Onions. I reckon Azzarullah might well be on our radar
ReplyDeleteAgreed on that, Mark!
DeleteLooks like 2nd team player of the year is the poisoned challis at DCCC. Last years winner, Tom Wood harshly released with no good reason.
ReplyDeleteNow with the extension to Smits contract , a clear message to Hussain. Thanks but no longer required. Whilst Woods release might raise the odd eyebrow. This latest news should be met with complete disbelief. The message to Hussain is clear. We know you hold dismissal records in first class, We know you hold records for consecutive first class fifties. We know your a bright young prospect and home grown at that.
Sadly we've decided to go with the more expensive 33year old kolpack player who averages under 20 in red ball cricket. Staggering barely touches the surface I'm afraid. Mr Smit should be embarrassed by this contract extension. He almost touched on as much in his post contract interview. Who is making these appalling decisions? Barnett. Goddleman.? With a year left on his contract Smit should be under no illusion. Warnings should be served. Signed as a batter that stumped a bit. If you want to stay, up your game next year. Instead he is rewarded with a contract extension. I'm sure I read somewhere that Kim required his batsman to average over 35 and bowlers under 30. As recent as yesterday I believe. A fair request I'd say. This smacks of double standards I'm afraid. The first team is becoming a cosy little gentlemans club that is almost impossible to break into. It is completely unreasonable to expect Hussain to put his career on hold for another 2 years when he should be playing now! His late season performances only strengthen that argument. The club are clearly trying to offload the best young prospect we've produced in the last decade. Shame on you Derbyshire, Shame on you.
John in Derby. By the way I'm not Hussain dad or his agent, just a concerned fan of Derbyshire cricket
Whoah John!
DeleteHow do you interpret Smit's contract as 'Hosein is no longer required'? Harvey has done well in two short spells but we don't know yet if he can sustain form over a summer. At 21 that is a big ask. Or he may get injured. With Wilson likely to be away more on Irish duty, we need another keeper. Would you prefer a young lad, unproven, as back up, or a world-class performer to stretch him and make him fight for a place?
I think your assertion that we are trying to offload Harvey both presumptuous and insulting to some very able people at the club.
And you should not infer that those who think this a good move..and there are plenty...are not concerned about the club and its future.
We will agree to disagree, but there are questionable assertions here mate.
Not least that it is a cosy gentleman's club hard to break into.
Indeed. Only by Hughes, Critchley, Davis, Qadri, Slater and a few more....
If they are good enough to win us matches, they will get in the team. If they win matches, they will stay there.
"Harvey has done well in two short spells but how do you know if he can do it for a season?".... He has performed well at every chance he has had, more than you can say about Smit who never performed in red ball cricket except a few good catches. The only way we will know if Harvey can keep up this form for a whole season is to give him the chance at more than just 5 games at the back end. Additionally, all reports I've heard are that smit is a nice bloke but I know for a fact that he hasn't done any keeping work with Harvey this season, it's nearly impossible with smit in the first team and Harvey in the second team, the schedule just doesn't allow for them to work together in the season. So I don't know where you have got that info PF but I can assure it is untrue. On top of that once smit finally got dropped from the first team he then refused to play in the second team and help some of the younger lads, obviously wasn't injured as was still playing club cricket. Frightening that a player can pick and choose what games he plays to suit him. Quite frankly I think it's a disgrace that Harvey didn't get the opportunity to start this season in first class cricket. A club like Derbyshire with limited resources should be rewarding young home grown talent who have performed well in the first team. Why not give Harvey a full year as first class WK and I guarantee he would have performed a lot better than smit and only improved to have become a better cricket because of it. I would go as far to agree with Johns above comment, with the current setup it seems senior players are running the team to suit them so they can do what they want and young home grown talent like Harvey, wood, Taylor, cork, cotton and even slater to some degree are just cast to the side while the "senior player/pals" look after themselves. Comes across as an incredible old fashioned setup, not too dissimilar to when Barnett was captain by all accounts.......funny that isn't it!!!! Simon, Derbyshire
ReplyDeleteEnjoying this debate and see both sides. Is it true Smit 'refused' to play 2nd team cricket? Big claim and indeed if correct is seemingly not a concern to the club hierarchy for whatever reason.
ReplyDeleteI was quite vociferous earlier on this year in my belief that HH should play all forms for us as I believe, and still do, that a) he's an excellent & improving player and b) being a Derbyshire lad has to mean something even leaving aside the financial sense in him playing.
My preference in 2018 at this point is for GW to forget about keeping full stop. Smit to keep wicket in the T20 and HH to have the gloves in all other cricket.
No it isnt true Tim and I will not allow such a comment about a player in the future.
DeleteComments of such a nature will not be published in the future, so please be warned...
A few bold and inaccurate comments here, Simon.
ReplyDeleteSmit has 'never performed in red ball cricket'? This was his first season here and you discount a long and successful career in South Africa.
'Harvey has performed well at every chance he had'? In 2015, as first choice keeper, he averaged 17 in eleven matches with one fifty. Given his age that was no surprise, but it happened.
'Smit refused to play seconds'. Really? Or was it that they were trialing players and assessing young options for the future? Do you really think someone who refused to play would get a new deal?
As Ash reported from the last members forum, Smit suggested that Harvey be given a run and, according to Kim Barnett, was first out and into the nets with him. I suspect that someone who was there may be more accurate than anyone who has told you otherwise and perhaps has an axe to grind.
I do dislike 'I know for a fact' because unless you are there, and someone has only told you, it isn't a fact, it is an anecdote that can often be wrong, more often than right.
The assertion that it is a cosy men's club is crazy. Don't you think all involved want to win things? And would therefore pick people who gave them the best chance of doing so? And don't you think, if they weren't, that someone as honest as Kim Barnett might point it out?
Young players? Those you name have all, with the exception of Tom Wood, had opportunities. Some have done better than others, some just haven't strung together enough to warrant a regular place.
I think Harvey has, for the record. But like you, I won't see him in nets all winter and pre-season, when he WILL work with Smit and decisions on the beat option will be made.
I have said before, whoever wins out and does well is irrelevant to me, as long as they push each other for the common good.
But please don't make blind statements casting slurs on the professionalism of good men, because it is totally inappropriate to do so.
Before this season i said and hoped that harvey would keep in championship cricket and wilson play as a batsman and i haven't changed my opinion. What we didn't then know was just how good smit is as a keeper.. and i saw bob taylor. This has made selection more difficult but i do believe we should give harvey as much opportunity as possible.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion and that's all it is, from what i have seen of smit as a batsman he looks a bit limited. Very strong square of the wicket especially on the sweep orthodox and reverse but on occasions it seemed he was trying to score exclusively in these areas. It was noticeable in the t20 against lancs that when he came to the crease dane vilas, who would know him well, was advising croft and they strengthened those areas but to be fair to smit he countered this well.. helped ny some poor bowling from junaid.
As for the claims about smit refusing to play etc i am sure that is complete nonsense. I heard smit on the radio during one game when he had been dropped and he came across as a very good team man and was very honest about the fact he had not scored enough championship runs. He was asked anout working with harvey and admitted it had been difficult to find time to do this but stated it was part of his job as a senior professional to do this. Came across as a good guy and certainly in the games i have seen adds value with his input on the field. I also thought he did well when he captained in the t20... would it have made a difference if he had been captain against hants? We will never know.
It is clear that smit is highly regarded by the people who matter at Derbyshire and i believe he adds value to the squad. As for selection.. his presence makes things a little more complicated!
Strong comments from Simon PF. Thought I was the only badger who cared deeply about young home grown talent. Maybe I'm not so much in the minority as I thought. Must have some Yorkshireman in me some where LOL. Strange that Smit didn't play in the 2s for the last couple of games with Harvey in the 1st team. His experience would have helped the younger players in those games greatly I would have thought, considering is eagerness to do the best by Harvey. Looking at the team sheets we played a lot of young hopefuls especially in the Chesterfield fixture versus Notts. We also played with no keeper on trial for those games? My mate went to watch the 2s at the back end when the first team where away. Apparently we had a non keeper keeping. A young lad from Ticknall called Jos Morgan or Josh not sure. Madsen's nephew apparently. Good little bat by all accounts but not a keeper. Does it when short for Ticknall I'm told.
ReplyDeleteJohn in Derby
Wow, Smit's new contract has bought out the Harvey must play fans.
ReplyDeleteI have said before that I like Harvey, and I think even without the gloves, he is worth a try at five, six or seven, and let's give him a bit of run in the first team.
As for us 'losing him', my position remains the same. That is, that if a bigger club, (Division one, test ground, more money) came for him, irrespective of whether he is in the team or not, he would go.
It is his job, therefore more money, a chance to play at a higher level, plus receiving greater exposure of his skills would be to his benefit. Possibly leading to international honours.
With all the above said, my hope is that the lad bides his time, grabs the opportunity when it comes, and goes on to have a long and successful career with Derbyshire CC.
My viewpoint - Daryn Smit is by far the best wicketkeeper I have seen at Derbyshire since Bob Taylor and fully justifies his selection. Just saying. I'm a big admirer of Harvey too !!
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Simon aka Silverfoxtheramsfan
I am somewhat puzzled by this talk of a "bigger club" wanting to sign harvey. Fine prospect and all that but what's he done to warrant such a move? Let's not get too carried away here.. he's not exactly ben stokes is he? Oh! hang on perhaps not the best example...
ReplyDeleteJOHN from Derby
ReplyDeleteWell I think you'd have to agree PF. There appears to be a lot of support for young Hosein. (Just realised I've been spelling his name wrong all this time. ) At least from your readers a care enough to comment. Please don't get me wrong, I also agree that Smit is a fine keeper. My issue is not with his keeping ability. His batting is sadly not of the required standard. He may well have a better average back in SA. But this is England. I do not wish to insult Kim , Billy or who ever is party to the extension decision. I have never played professional cricket. However I have played cricket for 40 years and have enough coaching badges to feel my opinion could be taken with some level of agreement. The problem is that Smit has his own way of batting. This as served in quite well back home. His technique as been engrained into his muscle memory over 100s of games and thousands if not millions of received deliverys. It is hard for me to believe that at 34 he will be able to make adjustments that will make him a better option than Harvey. Hosein as grown up in these conditions and already at 22 has a technique far superior to Smits. He is only going to get better if given the correct exposure now and not in 2 years time. Derbyshire have, by giving Smit his extension for me suggested that he is there first choice. If not why the extension? After all I'm sure he'll be paid in excess of £50k a year. Why would you commit money when cash is short if you don't intend to play him. The argument of Smit and Hosein is a no brainier when you look at the facts. The beauty of cricket is that it's a very measurable game. Kim holds great weight over players ability to achieve the required stats with bat and ball. Only yesterday was this mentioned in his club address. If you look at the stats they speak for themselves. Smit has batted 13 times in the baggy blue this year amassing just 237 runs at an average of 19.75. No fifties and no hundreds. This from a guy who came as a batsman who can bowl and stump a bit. He as 21 dismissals at an average of 2.62 per game. In the last 2 years Hosein as batted 16 times. He has scored 593 runs including 5 fifties and 1 hundred. At an average of 59.3. Hoseins first team career dismissals read 64 in 23 games with an average of 2.78 per game. If this was a comparison of 2 players of similar age and nationality the decision would be easy and without question. Some one needs to explain to me in words of short syllables why this is not an easy decision for Derbyshire. This is not an opinion based on my sentiment towards home grown players. It is based on simple, facts. These are the facts and are undeniable.
But John, those stats don't tell a full story do they? This was Daryn's first year against the Dukes ball. He had no pre-season, after surgery and was playing catch-up.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot measure a keeper on what he catches, or stumps, because he needs opportunities to take them. Harvey took eleven on debut, which was great, but the bowlers had to get him the chances. I measure a keeper on what he misses, the tidiness of his work, which sets the tone in the field, and the effect he has on the team with advice and overall work. On that, Smit scores much higher, because he has the greater experience.
To say he came as a batter 'who could stump a bit' is akin to saying that Pavarotti was a bloke who could carry a tune. I'm still surprised that we didn't know of his ability behind the stumps, because his reputation preceded him and I read several pieces that said how good his glove work was from South Africa. For me, he would have been the man to sign last September, when he got 200 for the seconds.
For me, as a bloke who has asserted that I always want my best keeper behind the stumps, I would AT THIS STAGE plump for Smit, as long as he scores more runs next year. A batsman who scores you seventy but drops a chance that costs you a hundred is in debit, so for me the man who drops less and keeps more tidily will always win the day.
That was a general comment, not based on Harvey and Daryn, by the way. And the bottom line is that whatever you think, I think, or anyone thinks, the people in charge at the club, who want to win cricket matches and trophies, will pick the man who they feel gives the best chance of doing that.
Whether that is a bloke who averages mid-thirties over a long career, or a young lad who averages the same from a short one, time will tell.
But as a supporter, I will abide by and respect their opinion. Like you, I am a long time club player with coaching badges. But like almost everyone else on here, I don't have the knowledge of the skill set required for first-class cricket.
They do, so I will defer to their greater judgement.
Whichever way it goes.
One thing you have alluded to PF, is the probability that we may not pack so much of a punch in the spinning department this season, not least seeking an Overseas seamer/ batsman as a priority.
ReplyDeleteI know too that Daryn is the bees knees standing up, though I don't consider Harv weak in this area, but I question that he's any better standing back.
I know how difficult it is standing up, having stood up to a 75 year old Edwin Smith for a couple of games, but standing back to others made me look almost a wicketkeeper, which I'm not!
So if we don't have a Mendis/ Tahir/ Qadir/ Intikhab sort of attack, I'd pick Harv evert time. The slight edge Smit MAY have in keeping will be neutralised anyway.
Finally, I agree with John, it's pleasing to hear that so many are bothered about this, that this structure of a "Senior Players Alliance" doesn't seem to see the bigger picture.
peakfan, every season you defer to their greater judgement and back those in charge on pretty much everything, and look how well thats done us apart from the fluke season. Yopu make very good comments but i feel you have blindspot when it comes to anything those in charge do and you always back then when all evidence suggests the opposite, ie the HH situation and Johns pertinent comments.
ReplyDeleteYou say Smit should play as you want to win games, well in the next 2 years Derbyshire are not going to win anything. Things need to be built and foundations put in place to put us in a position whereby we potentially can. Smit is clearly not going to be around for the long term, and despite your convictions was signed primarily as a batsmen, and has summarily failed at that. These 2 facts added together mean its brainless to carry on picking him, in HH we have a very promising player, and he will only get better from exposure at this stage. His record is comparable to Smits, and thus he should play whilst we put foundations in place as he could be supreme in 2 years.
High Peak
This has been covered pretty well on both sides now, High Peak.
ReplyDeleteIf you have read the blog long enough, High Peak, you will know there are times I disagree with the club and an not afraid to say so.
It is 'brainless' to pick a world-class keeper? Wow, that is a bold statement...
Harvey will get his cricket, as I have said before, but it will be in the four day game unless his ability to score quickly and improvise comes on in the winter.
I expect Smit to be a different bat next year. If he is, he will be tough to displace If he isn't, Harvey has to be ready for his chance.