Both are deserved call-ups, even if that of Moore is quite unexpected because of his age. It cannot be an accolade received by many who are still at school and we can only hope that he is not pushed too much, too quickly.
For Brown it is a reward for leaving the county where he grew up and opting for pastures new. I remember watching him in his last year at Worcester and wondering what had happened to the talented young lad I had seen a year or two before.
This year he ran in hard and with good rhythm. Crucially he stayed fit throughout the summer and had opportunities with the red ball too. He can and will get better. I said at the time of his signing that he was a trade-up on George Scrimshaw and although a few people disagreed, I doubt they would do so now. George had another injury hit summer at Northampton and I do fear that he might not reach the heights that were expected in his first season at Derby.
Anyway, good luck to Harry and Pat. It reflects well on Derbyshire that two of their players have made it to this level, even if the season as a whole was disappointing.
Hopefully they do well, impress and return to Derby full of confidence.
The lions selection along with England's as a whole seems to have jumped the shark. This is no disrespect to these 2 as Moore could be very good, and has shown good promise, I don't rate brown personally, but neither are England A calibre currently, but then a lot of others in the squad arnt, and the lions no longer bear any resemblance to England's A side. What must Zak Chappel feel when he's had a great season and imo been the best by far of your bowlers yet sees these selections.
ReplyDeletePicking players on hunches doesn't work long term and the disdain the selectors have shown to county cricket is a worry. Hull will never make an international player imo and will struggle to be a county player.
Handing out caps like confetti is not right either imo. Hartley, Bashir, Ahmed, this new Yorkshire bloke, none will have a long term career and are no better imo than leach, let alone the overlooked dawson and significantly worse in some cases. Matt critchley is a superior player in every aspect, especially leg spin as this Yorkshire lad.
Flintoff is a decent man but again is he really the best qualified for the lions job as jead man .it smacks of jobs for keys mates and ecb saying a big f you to county cricket just to make a point as key hates it in its current form.
Essex Fan
'...Hartley, Bashir, Ahmed, this new Yorkshire bloke, none will have a long term career..'
DeleteWow! that's some statement. Also, his name is Jafer Chohan. Very disrespectful.
Hull will struggle to be a county player? Pray tell, what you are basing that opinion on? Matt Critchley is an OK leg spinner, nothing more nothing less.
If only Rob Key had appointed you instead of Flintoff...
Yes, think Chohan deserved a name, Essex Fan. We don't know. Some players are late developers, as we found when we let Paul Taylor leave years ago! Parkinson and Tom Taylor have done OK too, while our county has several players who came back to do well after being released.
DeleteI am just wary of players being pushed too soon. Especially if they then try to change the things that made them good enough to be selected in the first place..
Plus Chohan was recently selected to play in the BBL, so it's not just England selectors who think he has something to offer.
DeleteForgot name on the last comment
DeleteJasper no need for the sarcasm/aggression. But have you ever watched Hull ive seen plenty of him. He will struggle to be a county player in a few years. he's been picked simply because of his height and handedness. Nothing else. They are obsessed with points of difference irrespective of talent and think they can develop players who will never will be. Imo. Disrespectful to other bowlers that he has a test cap already. Would you swap him for your seamers? I wouldn't.
DeleteNo disrespect meant to chohan I have never heard of him previously and couldn't recall his name and his record doesn't stand out. The BBL is no guide these days it's a struggling competition that's in trouble as keen observers and reader will be aware.
The spinners I mention are much of a muchness or do you disagree? none have stood out in county cricket or test cricket and could just as well be any stock youngish spinner from x yz county.Jack leach has stood out and his county think so too.
Critchley picked up nearly 40 wickets in divsion 1, but he's just ok. I think on record he's the best English leggie stats wise this season by far i suspect?
Do you think Flintoff has the best credentials and was best candidate for the lions job?
Do you think the lions are the next best available players apart from the first xi england squads? The lions are an experimental development now.
Do you think Moore and brown deserve to be there ahead of Chappel?
Key and mcullum are out to make a point with zany out there picks, and detest county cricket. I find it odd that you defend key who would happily have both our counties cease to be if he had his way.
Essex fan
But we don't know, Essex fan. You can't look at a lad between 17 and 21 and say he won't make it. Which is why it is sad that so many are on the scrapheap at that stage. Hull may or may not make top level, but could be a good county bowler. That in itself puts him in the top 0.5% of cricketers in the country. Picking them early highlights that they are on the radar, but runs the risk of exposing them before they are ready.
DeleteIt is all about opinions. Let's just make sure they are expressed politely, as all of them are treated in that way on this site
Essex Fan
DeleteFirst of all, apologies if you felt my post was aggressive. It wasn't the intention, and I'm not sure how it came across as such. Sarcasm? well, maybe a touch! Lowest form of wit etc etc.
From what I can see on cricinfo Matt Critchley actually took 34 division 1 wickets at 30.67.... Matt is a lovely guy, and it's great to see him doing well at Essex, but I think his ship may have sailed with regard to international honours. Personally, I think he should have been on a Lions tour some years ago. I believe the closest thing he got was representing the North when they played some games versus the South. Strauss was very complimentary about him at the time.
It would have taken you about 10 seconds to source Jafer Chohan's name, and I felt that came across as (intentionally) disrespectful.
I think Hull will at least have a decent county career. Providing injury doesn't play its part, which is always a danger for fast bowlers. Yes, I have seen a little of him, and there's a lot to like. I'm also aware that he was described as a 'handful' by one Derbyshire batter. So I guess 22 yards is closer than either of us have got to him.
I don't think I defended Rob Key. In fact I was slightly critical when wondering why he chose Flintoff ahead of yourself....doh! damned sarcasm! 😉
With regards to Moore and Brown. I'm a little surprised both have been chosen, not that Moore doesn't look a real talent, (Michael Vaughan has already referenced him on TMS as one to watch) but that it's very early, but as they say, if you're good enough then you're old enough. Brown is perhaps with a view to see if he can get back into contention for white ball selection, as someone has already mentioned.
As Steve says, it's all about opinions and yours are as valid as anyone else's. Winter well, and good luck for next season
Chohan had an excellent season in the blast this year, one of the best performing wrist spinners.
DeleteAlso the BBL might be struggling but there are still hundreds of international players applying to be drafted, so for Chohan to be selected ahead of all those (including a certain Essex leg spinner) does suggest that it's not just Key and Mccullum making a point by picking him.
Stuart
The selectors no longer care if you play for Surrey, or Leicestershire. This is surely a good thing? Kris
DeleteTrue Pf but I completely disagree he should have been given a test cap based on the evidence so far and disagree with the approach. Duncan fletcher went on hunches off modest County records and it worked well with Vaughan and tresco, but it's hold some weight and they were not unproven
DeleteTo see myriad bang average spinners tried then discarded smacks of desperation as well and despite the flavour of the month chouhan selection be it in the bbl I suspect he will be discarded soon too as Hartley and Ahmed have been as bashir will be in time.
I'm not advocating critch for England leach is better but I would have him every day over the others and suspect most of you guys would too.
Simon wilde recently wrote about the oddities of England selection and it being around face fitting and how disappointed Sam curran and demotivating ot can be as regardless of performance if they like you you are in regardless of form/a body of work and if they don't yiu have no chance. The silly idea of Dan Lawrence was a case in point rather than calling up a actual opener. I can only see it causing harm in the long run.
Essex Fan
Moore will play test cricket I'm sure. Not sure how this will work with his studies! But amazing news. The good thing is that the England selectors now are quite happy to pick from all counties.
ReplyDeleteGreat news. Both thoroughly deserve the call-up. And it will boost their confidence.
ReplyDeleteMoore looks like he is being fast tracked by England, but it's early days. He has the height and bounce to potentially take wickets in Australia, which the selectors are obsessed with. I assume Brown is more a pick with T20 internationals in mind, after his excellent Blast, this year. Kris
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to both of them. Also excellent news that Moore has signed for 3 years. I had feared the vultures gathering for his signature next season. His loyalty is to be greatly admired, especially given the season we have just endured.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to both of them...but I do feel Essex fan has a point...I personally feel Baz & Key are loving shoving their finger to county cricket....& they probably snigger in the corner with some of their picks. All these county lads have worked hard on the pyramid system...it us now meaningless....
ReplyDeleteThere is increasing evidence that performances at county level aren't that useful as an indicator for test level.
ReplyDeleteThere are some startling stats out there about the average pace faced at county level vs test. Something like 65%+ of county pace bowling being below 85% compared to less than 20% at test level.
I was sceptical of the selection approach initially however can't argue with the results of Crawley, Bashir and even Hull who clearly will be a very good player despite the very ungenerous comment above. And to describe Chohan as just "Yorkshire bloke" was very poor by the way.
It's a big positive for us that Moore has been identified as a potential England player of the future based on the raw materials the selectors have seen.
Lastly as good as Chappell has been for us this season, his actual record and average was pretty mediocre at around 30 so claims he'd be more deserving are wide of the mark. Clearly a very good county player but never an international, just like Critch and that's absolutely fine.
I respectfully disagree on every point Hamez. Dean Elgar made some telling comments on the standards of division 1 earlier in the season in respect of test cricket.
DeleteI think Bashir, Crawley and Hull results can all be questioned with validity as they don't stand out and would stand by my claims Hull will drift from the game in a few years.
But you seem to contradict yourself saying chappels stats are average but before that county stats bears little relationship to international cricket, you cant have it both ways.
England lions have called up all manner of weird and wacky names in recent years to and for little point, scrimshaw from you albeit that was a full international when many on here were baffled at that call up, and this isn't begrudging Moore call up I think he's a huge prospect.
But I can tell I'm fighting a losing battle over the current England regime so will bow out as this is off topic anyway.
Essex fan
Could it be that Shan Masood comes back to Derbyshire? Pretty sure Yorkshire will not renew his contract. (Would have been announced by now). So maybe an option especially if Pakistan drop him at some point? Would you want him back?
ReplyDeleteI think a new new regime at Yorkshire will look elsewhere. Before we signed Jewell my answer would have been yes, but I think it unlikely we would sign two new batters? Or have the budget for Masood, although he fits the 'returning player' mould better than most!
DeleteI understood it to be a bowler, however. So it would appear unlikely